[bloby22]

At the moment i have windows 7 32-bit which was upgraded from vista 32-bit and i want to get windows 7 64-bit (because i have 4GB of ram and it's only reading 3.25GB of it)
So is it possible to use a full install disk of windows 7 64-bit on my windows 7 32-bit or must i have a 64-bit upgrade?

[BeeCeeBee]

I believe that maximum RAM for Windows 7 (32) is 4GB (except the starter version and I have yet to meet anyone who actually has that.) Before you upgrade I would question whether some of that "missing" RAM is attributable to your graphics card?

If that is the case there would be no difference in the readings with 64 bit.

[Match]

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If that is the case there would be no difference in the readings with 64 bit.

That's not quite right, the problem with 32 bit OS is it can only address 4Gig of RAM so if you have a GPU with RAM it will use up some of the available RAM Address so although it's there the OS cant address it so won't "see it"

With a 64Bit OS the OS can address of the top of my head something around 128Gig so once it has an address windows can use it

Owing to the fact that Windows 7 64Bit will need a completely new set of drivers I would go for a clean install, although if you install over the top or upgrade it will probably put all your documents into a folder for you, but you still end up having to re-install all your programs that will work and get 64bit versions for the ones that don't

[BeeCeeBee]

I agree but my point is that if a certain amount of RAM is being used by graphics it will continue to use it with 64bit. If there was another gig of RAM with the 32 bit then it would recognize the full 4 gigs. Now, having said that, I may be entirely wrong.

[Match]

I think I know what you are getting at,

With a 32 Bit OS it can only Address 4G of RAM unfortunately windows needs around 512Mb of those addresses so the most RAM you can have and use is 3.5Gb

Now if you then have a GPU with 1Gb of its own onboard RAM you will loose another 1GB of Addresses so effectively out of your 4Gb of installed RAM sticks you will only use 2.5Gb of them.

With a 64 Bit OS it can Address 128Gb theoretically, although realistically Windows would only address 48Gb (or is it 64Gb) not sure if it were possibly to have that much installed.

So it will have its 512Mb of Addresses, and still then be able to Address the whole 4Gb or 8Gb if your being silly with more money than sense, and still have room to spare to Address another Gb plus of GPU RAM.

So if you have 4 X 2Gb Ram sticks and 2 X GPU with 1Gb of RAM each you could have 10Gb of RAM inside your machine

But (you knew it was coming)

I have 80 or so applications installed in my Programs(X86) Folder that can only use 3.5Gb of that potential 10Gb

and

wait for it

26 applications in my programs Folder that could use the full 10Gb if it were there. (4.5Gb really)

or put another way 75% of software is still in 32Bit OS and without looking which folder they got installed into I couldn't tell you which ones run 64Bits or 32Bits

[bloby22]

...................OK i think i get what you guys are on about.
First of all i have 4GB of ram and this is what it sais when i right click my computer:
Installed memory (RAM): 4.00 GB (3.25 GB usable)

I also have a Nvidea 9800GT 1GB.

But my question is can i use the full install disk of Windows 7 64-bit on a 32-bit. And should i restore my hardrive first. By the way ifi do restore it does that take the OC off i previousily had vista and upgraded to windows 7 does that mean il have to instal vista then upgrade then do i full install to 64-bit or could i just do the full install windows 7 64-bit straight off the restore?

This post has been edited by bloby22: 04 Mar 2010 - 07:13 PM

[BSchwarz]

You can't upgrade from 32bit to 64bit. You have to do a clean install. You can use the install disk, but, will have to boot from it to do the install. If you run the installer while in Windows 7 32bit it will tell you to reboot with the dvd in the drive to install Windows 7 64bit.

You will lose your original Vista install that you upgraded to.

Don't worry about driver issues. Unless you are using some old exotic printer you won't have any driver problems. I have not had to install any driver on the many installs of Windows 7 64 I have done. 64bit driver support is 100 times better than it was with XP64 and 10 times better than it was with Vista 64.

Software shouldn't be a problem either. Any 32bit app that runs on your install of Windows 7 will continue to work when you go to 64bit. You will of course have to install the software again. Contrary to what many people think there are very few 64bit apps out at the moment and the only 32bit app I found that doesn't work on 64bit is our accounting software. I cured that by using XP Mode. Most of the software that people run on Windows 7 64 is in fact 32bit. You won't see 64bit software be the main stream until we get off the x86 platform altogether.

[bloby22]

So i "DONT" have to install vista again i can instal the windows 7 64-bit right after wiping everything off it?

[Dalo Harkin]

The following OS support 64bit
XP
Vista
W7

you need to have a key/install disk though that is 64bit OEM disks do not have both versions on the same disk, retail do but you need different keys.

[bloby22]

I know dalo but do i need to instal vista again once i wipe my comp or do i can i just install windows 7 64-bit?

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I know dalo but do i need to instal vista again once i wipe my comp or do i can i just install windows 7 64-bit?

Do you have a Windows 7 64Bit Disk? (OEM or Retail) if so then there is no need to install Vista.

The disk you used to upgrade from Vista 32 Bit to windows 7 32 Bit won't install windows 7 64 bit.

[bloby22]

My friends getting the disk from another friend.
Not sure whether its OEM or Retail.
But if its either one of those does that mean there is no need to install vista?
By the way whats OEM?

[Match]

LOL OEM is basically what the mass of the shelf companies install and is licensed to be used on one machine. or motherboard and once it's put on that machine and activated it registers it's self with Microsoft and won't install on any other. where as the Retail version will allow itself to be installed on any one machine at any one time.

Quote

My friends getting the disk from another friend.

won't say no more about that. other than make sure it's a genuine copy

but just Back up format and install, and all should be well.

[bloby22]

Thankue for your help

[Dalo Harkin]

Ok I will try and clarify this as best as I can as the 'rules' are flakey at best:-

When Windows sells the OS, they come in a variety of formats:-

Retail - these are what the likes of Scan, Amazon, and many other etailers sell, they feature both 32 and 64 bit versions on the same disk, but at the install you need to choose which you require and use the appropriate key (more expensive than OEM) comes with a nice box and manual

OEM - these are what system builders use they do not feature anything more than a very limited manual and the disk and key, comes in either 32 or 64 bit versions BUT are not on the same disk you purchase either a 32 or 64 bit version disk. With an OEM disk you do not get any support from MS in any way, the OS is effectively tied down to one system using information supplied by the hardware (the MOBO) (if your MOBO dies and you replace the MOBO and then try and reinstall the key will no longer work, you need to call MS and tell them and they more often than not will give you another key) although they do not have to do this!

[bloby22]

I understand, but they do sell OEM on the market, right?

This post has been edited by bloby22: 06 Mar 2010 - 03:32 AM

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I understand, but they do sell OEM on the market, right?

Yes technically they are only supposed to sell it if you buy a motherboard and other components, however money is money and it can save you a lot, so computer shops sell the copies on their own
who needs a nice dvd box, and a manual, and a number to phone Microsoft support

[KlickKatt]

Some thoughts by Woody on Upgrades:

Quote

WOODY'S WINDOWS

Win7 upgrade restrictions make no sense
By Woody Leonhard

Microsoft's words and actions sometimes directly contradict each other; in several places, the Windows 7 license agreement prohibits actions that the setup software then allows or even automates.

All Microsoft end-user license agreements suffer from defects, but with Win7, the conflicts, contradictions, and confusion have reached new heights — or depths.

Agreeing to licensing terms you'll never see

In my Dec. 3, 2009, Top Story, I take apart the Windows 7 end-user license agreement and show the enormous gulf between the language in the EULA and the ways people use Windows 7 every day — ways that Microsoft itself demonstrates, supports, and seemingly condones.

My Feb. 4 Top Story examined the differences between the EULAs you click to accept and the ones Microsoft posts on its site.

Let's be clear: In all of this, I'm not talking about theft. If you use Windows, you should pay for it. But how can you be breaking a licensing agreement by installing Windows in a way that Microsoft itself documents — and in some cases even encourages?

I have no intention of ever becoming an attorney and no delusions of lawyerliness, but parts of the Windows EULAs seem absolutely unenforceable. For example, every Windows EULA I've ever seen has a standard disclaimer at the beginning, stating a variation of the following:

• "Printed-paper license terms, which may come with the software, may replace or modify any on-screen license terms."
  
  
• "An amendment or addendum to this EULA may accompany the Software ..."
  

Of course, that's absurd. If you click "I Agree" to a EULA on screen, and you don't see a piece of paper in the box, you can't be held to the terms of an agreement you've never seen, right? These switcheroos are a vestige of the old legal trick known as the "last shot fired."

Decades ago, it was common for sellers to send buyers a follow-up letter that claimed to provide "final terms and conditions." The two parties could shoot back and forth an endless round of letters, each claiming to be more final than the last.

U.S. courts long ago ruled that such "Oh yes, one more thing …" documents are unenforceable and may be disregarded. (See the discussion of the last-shot rule in Step-Saver Data Systems Inc. v. Wyse Technology and the Software Link.) So even if Microsoft can prove you clicked "I Agree" to a specific EULA and the EULA is found — someday — to be binding, those little after-the-fact gotchas are a different story altogether.

Microsoft waffles on upgrade qualifications

It's not just a piece of paper inside the box that may alter the terms of your agreement. In at least one case, the box itself may hold the answer. A friend of mine bought Windows 7 Home Premium Upgrade off the shelf at Costco, anticipating that he could use it to upgrade his Windows 2000 PC. He popped the upgrade DVD into the drive and had Windows 7 working in no time.

When he told me about it, I replied, "Microsoft doesn't allow you to use the Windows 7 Home Premium Upgrade DVD to upgrade from Windows 2000. What you did violates the end-user license agreement. You have to pay extra for the 'Full' version of Win7."

My friend told me — not too politely, I might add — that I was nuts: the box didn't say anything about Windows 2000, the installer didn't object in the slightest, and Win7 was working great.

Rising to the challenge, I determined to find out whether what he did was allowed by the EULA. I checked the Windows 7 EULA, which I found by using the technique described in the Feb. 4 Top Story. Item 15 of the EULA states, "To use upgrade software, you must first be licensed for the software that is eligible for the upgrade." Cool. Unfortunately, the EULA doesn't tell you which software is eligible.

I looked inside the box for an addendum. Nothing. I looked in the Welcome to Your PC, Simplified installation-instruction book. Nada. I finally found a tiny note on the side of the box — in 4-point type — that says, "All editions of Windows XP and Windows Vista qualify you to upgrade." It doesn't say anything about Windows 2000.

I tried to find a definitive answer on Microsoft's site and encountered a hodgepodge of conflicting information. The Microsoft Store site doesn't mention Windows 2000. Many of the answers on the Microsoft Answers site — such as this thread — say Windows 2000 qualifies for upgrade pricing, but other Microsoft sources contradict this.

Bottom line? If Windows 2000 doesn't qualify for upgrade pricing, Microsoft is doing a very good job of hiding that fact.

When does complicity become unconscionable?

As I explained in the Feb. 4 story, almost everyone agrees that EULAs fall into the general legal category of a "contract of adhesion" — a contract that you enter into even though the manufacturer has all the bargaining power. You can take it or leave it and try to get your money back after the fact, bucko.

There's nothing wrong with contracts of adhesion, but courts tend to look upon them differently than contracts drawn up where both parties stand on equal footing. The Achilles heel — if you'll pardon an extended pedestrian metaphor — of a contract of adhesion lies in the possibility of "unconscionable" restrictions: if a court finds that the contract is outrageously one-sided, the court may well refuse to enforce the terms of the contract. That's true all over the world, not only in the U.S.

Consider the Windows 2000 upgrade quandary described above. A consumer buys a product that appears to be suitable for the task at hand — upgrading a Windows 2000 PC to Windows 7. The consumer exercises reasonable efforts to follow the rules.

Even if the consumer notices Item 15 — has agonized over it — there's no contrary advice or prohibition in the agreement, in the package, or in the installation sequence. More than that, there's conflicting advice on the topic on the manufacturer's own Web site.

There's no notice anywhere about the Windows 2000 ineligibility, and the upgrade goes through without a single hitch. Does Microsoft's complicity in the EULA-violating installation constitute an unconscionable restriction in the contract of adhesion? I don't know, but it's something a court should certainly consider, should Microsoft ever try to enforce that part of the EULA.

The Windows 2000 upgrade example is particularly egregious. Windows 7's EULA is chock-full of similar restrictions that fly in the face of reasonable, accepted practice:

• Using upgrade media to install on a clean hard drive — a procedure that's documented in the upgrade manual — may or may not be allowed.
  
  
• Creating a dual-boot PC using the upgrade DVD definitely isn't allowed, but Windows 7 doesn't bellyache when you do so.
  
  
• OEM-version restrictions require a "System Builder" to sell an OEM-endowed PC to a third party, but there's no prohibition on selling an OEM system to yourself.
  
  
• Running the upgrade installer twice to perform a full install — as documented in WS editorial director Brian Livingston's <a style="" href="http://windowssecret...-pay-full-price">Feb. 1, 2007, Top Story and unchanged by Microsoft in the intervening three years — may or may not break the rules.
  

Changes may be coming to Microsoft EULAs

I'm happy to report there's more than a little sign of intelligent life on Planet Microsoft. For example, all indications are that Office 2010 — expected to be released in a few months — will not have an upgrade version. You either buy it or you don't. If Microsoft would consider a similar bold move for Windows, the EULA situation would become considerably simplified overnight.

I wonder if there's any chance the 'Softies will dump the OEM version of Windows as well? Right now, software retailers can buy large volumes of Windows 7 in shrink-wrap boxes at a discount. Why not do the same for system builders? None of this hokey "you gotta sell it" stuff. You buy a lot, you get a discount. Simple.

Hey, Microsoft! How about giving us a discount for buying the activation keys and ditching the boxes? Give us a foolproof way to validate the bits distributed in torrents or on download sites. Give us a discount for buying 10 copies at a time — or 50, or 500,000 — but give everybody the same discount and make all the versions the same.

The company has already done that with the upgrade and full versions of Win7. Each DVD contains all Win7 versions, only one of which may be unlocked and installed with the activation key you purchased.

I look forward to Microsoft's continuing to level the playing field, reducing the artificial and nonsensical distinctions, and cutting back on wasteful packaging. Think of the legal bills — and landfills — doing so would save!

Check out the "Get-Vista-upgrade-never-pay-full-price" link. Also true for Windows 7.